what does galatians 5:15 mean

So, love is the fulfilling of the law. But there was no sense of union then. God himself.". He had before told us that the Spirit of Christ is a privilege bestowed on all the children of God, Galatians 4:6; Galatians 4:6. It also described the bands of the devotees of Bacchus, god of wine. If I sow to the flesh, I shall of the flesh reap corruption; if I sow to the Spirit, I shall reap life everlasting. They're just warmed over, put in a new coat, and declared by a fresh voice, or sometimes the voices aren't so fresh, but they're things, concepts that . I tried." It was his to bear in his body a very different brand" the marks of the Lord Jesus," the scars of the only warfare that is precious in the sight of God the Father. Because we wait to have our baptisms 'til the water gets warmer.It's because baptism doesn't save. It is interesting to note that Chara and Eirene both became very common Christian names in the Church. The Christian by the cross of Christ has terminated his connection with flesh, with the world, with the law. Christian churches cannot be ruined but by their own hands; but if Christians, who should be helps to one another and a joy one to another, be as brute beasts, biting and devouring each other, what can be expected but that the God of love should deny his grace to them, and the Spirit of love should depart from them, and that the evil spirit, who seeks the destruction of them all, should prevail? How abortive is man in the things of God! Men were not his source, nor was man even a medium to him. Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia, and was unknown by face unto the churches of Judea which were in Christ." California - Do Not Sell My Personal Information. His is an apostleship to itself, as real as that of the twelve, but of another order, not at the same time, nor in the same manner. Surely now there was some link with the twelve! Dissension; literally the word means a standing apart. Thus it was the ardour of love and grief; it was the earnestness of his purpose that could not bear in this instance to employ an intermediary. But the most famous portion of Galatians 5 contains Paul's reference to the fruit of the Spirit: 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 gentleness, self-control. "Now, a lot of times when people come to me with some weird concept, I'll say, "Where in the world did you get that idea?" It will create a lot of enemies. (d) Agape ( G26) , the Christian word, means unconquerable benevolence. Now, Paul taught righteousness through faith. Usually in the New Testament eirene ( G1515) stands for the Hebrew shalowm ( H7965) and means not just freedom from trouble but everything that makes for a man's highest good. The apostle goes up to Jerusalem, not only with Barnabas, who had come from thence, but taking with him Titus, who seems not to have been there before Titus, his own valued companion in labour, but a Gentile. Far otherwise is God's way with souls. This terminates all for me as a living man here below. So he calls on them to be as free of the law as himself. Was this then a reproach? And then there's another reference also in Revelation, "but outside or the dogs and adulterers and so forth.". Enmity; the idea is that of the man who is characteristically hostile to his fellow men; it is the precise opposite of the Christian virtue of love for the brethren and for all men. It comes by reading the book of Mormon. If ye bite and devour one another These Churches seem to have been in a state of great distraction; there were continual altercations among them. Causes me to become judgmental. Ritualism is the present most patent comment on the apostle's statement. It was for the chiefs at Jerusalem to judge for themselves, and they did judge to the confusion of the apostle's adversaries. "Desirous of vainglory,". When the emphasis of man became on the physical fleshly side of him, he no longer was one with God, who is a Spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and in truth. The writer of First Maccabees ( 1Ma_8:4 ) says that it was by makrothumia ( G3115) that the Romans became masters of the world, and by that he means the Roman persistence which would never make peace with an enemy even in defeat, a kind of conquering patience. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself ( Galatians 5:14 ). You know, you come up with some heretical teaching, you get everybody excited and everybody's listening, everybody's beginning to discuss what you're teaching. And you develop your own little following, which really appeals to your flesh. It is past dispute that the things he here speaks of are the works of the flesh, or the product of corrupt and depraved nature; most of them are condemned by the light of nature itself, and all of them by the light of scripture. He speaks of "the grace of Christ." The way of law makes salvation dependent on human achievement; the man who takes the way of grace simply casts himself and his sin upon the mercy of God. . That is, my mind is constantly upon fleshly things. The warfare going on. That is to say, after his flights of thought can he reduce it all to something that the ordinary man can understand and do? and injurious actions, which must be of bad consequence: hence he He had been brought to a place of blessing outside himself and by another, the Saviour, which in itself gives the soul motives indeed but not power; whereas, for the soul who is brought to God by the gospel, and planted in the liberty wherein Christ makes free before God, it is no more a question of flesh, but of the Holy Ghost who is given to him. For kindness the word is chrestotes ( G5544) . Paul begins chapter 5 by stating flatly that Christ has set us free in order that we should be free. Now, the whole idea is to be righteous before God in order that I might have fellowship with God. That's the position where we stand. He does not charge them with anything of an openly gross or immoral nature; but what a proof that the truth of God, that the grace of Christ, is exclusive of everything but itself! Can I be righteous by keeping the law? Now, as a means of engaging them to the one and preserving them from the other of these, he here cautions them against being desirous of vain-glory, or giving way to an undue affectation of the esteem and applause of men, because this, if it were indulged, would certainly lead them to provoke one another and to envy one another. In the meantime God had come and promised that Sarah would have a child, which was so difficult to believe that it appeared impossible to Abraham and Sarah; but in due time Isaac was born. "Oh, well, He laid down His divinity before He died." If God had been a man, he would have wiped out this world long ago; but he has that patience which bears with all our sinning and will not cast us off. The law was given them with all pomp and solemnity. We find that offensive in our society today, but in those days, the area of Galatia was the center of the worship of Sybil, and the priests of Sybil would castrate themselves. This is the very evil which the Spirit of God so earnestly and energetically denounces here by the apostle Paul. There is a warfare that goes on in the life of the believer. Even though keeping God's law cannot earn us salvation, God clearly expects us to keep His law after we've been forgiven (through repentance and baptism) for breaking it. Romans chapter six, "Know ye that the old man was crucified with Christ? But as in the end the child of the slave girl was cast out and had no share in the inheritance, so in the end those who are legalists will be cast out from God and have no share in the inheritance of grace. The Holy Ghost is given as the seal of faith in Christ on the accomplishment of redemption, not before nor otherwise. Now, man was created and by God as a living spirit. To excite Christians hereunto, and to assist them herein, the apostle shows. The apostle accordingly now turns to the great argument of his epistle, and the discussion of those grand principles that are characteristic to Christianity, and in full agreement with the facts that have already been brought before you. No, rejoins the apostle; you are going back to heathenism. To the Galatians there was an exception. And so, Paul is picking up, now, the same phrase. It is the quality, not so much of the jealous, but rather of the embittered mind. another; having reference to their controversies about the law Paul urged his readers to live unbound to the Law of Moses (Galatians 5:1-12). This kind of love is a trusting love. He was given, whether in power or in person, not by the law, but by the hearing of faith. Either Luke, as a doctor, did not use or have access to pharmaceuticals, which would then require that Galatians 5 says nothing of medicine, or Dr. Luke administered pharmakeia, which, the argument goes, is medicine sorcery. What can be conceived more serious or trenchant than such a statement as this? What Paul is saying is, "This legalistic movement may not have gone very far yet, but you must root it out before it destroys your whole religion.". The allusion is to beasts of prey falling upon and devouring one another: for wolves or dogs to worry sheep is not strange; but for sheep to distress one another is unnatural. "As we have said before, so I say now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received." Just let our books explain for you." Nor this only. I choose the best facts; for I have no wish to rake up abuses. . ( 2 Corinthians 6:14 ) How can I really fellowship with God if I'm unrighteous? My business is to act consistently with the new place in which grace has put me. But you continue one degree off on out over the Pacific, and you can miss your destination completely. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded ( Galatians 5:10 ): Now Paul is now saying, "Oh, who did hinder you, you know, and this teach and all. Gentiles might boast in their freedom. Hence the effect of the law in all its ramifications on man is the same. The truth is, that they had their relationship to the twelve tribes of Israel. As you know, he had been under law as a Jew. And you keep dealing with me until I'll finally say, "Oh, God, I'm sorry. I get an attitude that is not of the Lord. It describes what in regency England would have been called a rout. Which son represented them? After all their vapouring about the law, they were biting and devouring one another. Be it so: such was true. In fact, what Jerusalem had done, as far as this was concerned, was to let slip men that would impose circumcision evil workers, as he in a later epistle contemptuously calls such like of the concision; for they were corrupting the Gentile churches by Judaism, instead of helping them in Christ. Some would have received the inheritance because of promise, and others on the ground of law. Accordingly he draws from this a most weighty argument against bringing in the law as the rule of life for the believer. Even so we, when we were children," etc. It therefore often happened that the Rabbis would take a simple bit of historical narrative from the Old Testament and read into it inner meanings which often appear to us fantastic but which were very convincing to the people of their day. The salutation ( Galatians 1:1-5 ) a. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath a husband." To depart from this was fatal. One of the lawyers one day challenged Jesus as to the greatest commandment. All rights reserved. God reserves to Himself this great blessedness in the gospel; whereas under the law there was nothing of the kind. To them, no doubt, it appeared as if they were zealous and sincere champions of unity. And how true all this is! She did what any wife would have done in those patriarchal times and sent Abraham in to her slave girl, Hagar, to see if she could bear a child on her behalf. There are two things in the Christian; he has a life, a new life in Christ, but he has also, the Holy Ghost. Remember what it must have been to one like Paul to censure the most honoured of the twelve. Such is the reasoning in which the apostle uses this very remarkable prophecy. (b) It means being teachable, being not too proud to learn ( James 1:21). ". The old law, while it accomplishes its purposes, makes no provisions for that "weakness of the flesh" (see Romans 8:2). But I have confidence in you that you're not going to be persuaded by this. That's where God touches me. As if he had said, "You must expect a struggle between flesh and spirit as long as you are in the world, that the flesh will be lusting against the spirit as well as the spirit against the flesh; but if, in the prevailing bent and tenour of your lives, you be led by the Spirit,--if you act under the guidance and government of the Holy Spirit and of that spiritual nature and disposition he has wrought in you,--if you make the word of God your rule and the grace of God your principle,--it will hence appear that you are not under the law, not under the condemning, though you are still under the commanding, power of it; for there is now no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit; and as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God," Romans 8:1-14. Galatians 5:15 - John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible BUT IF YE BITE AND DEVOUR ONE ANOTHER,.. On the other hand, the spirit (the renewed part of us) strives against the flesh, and opposes the will and desire of it: and hence it comes to pass that we cannot do the things that we would. Makrothumia ( G3115) ; this is a great word. Liberty comes first, mark; power and love afterwards. That is, if the Holy Ghost was given as the seal of their redemption, and as the joy of the sonship, wherein they now stood, in the exercise of their nearness to God and enjoyment of His love, they cry, "Abba, Father," the very words of Christ himself (but in how different circumstances!) The apostle accepts the fact in all its strength. The Bible says, "The natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit: neither can he know them, they are spiritually discerned" ( 1 Corinthians 2:14 ). He took care also that the twelfth apostleship should be filled up; for it is a profound mistake to suppose that Peter and the other apostles had been hasty in numbering Matthias with them, and that Paul was really the twelfth apostle according to the mind of the Lord. He also warned them against using their liberty as a license to sin to prevent them from overreacting. Wantonness; this word (aselgeia, G766) is translated licentiousness in the Revised Standard Version ( Mark 7:22; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 4:19; 1 Peter 4:3; Jd 1:4 ; Romans 13:13 and 2 Peter 2:18). Now, it is evident and to this I call your particular attention that the apostle here binds together his gospel with his apostolic place. Therefore the apostle adds, ,And as many as walk according to this rule [that is, the rule of the new creation], peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God." But, further, he refers in a very affecting manner to some personal circumstances how in his own body he was a witness of having nothing to do with flesh; for what God had been pleased to put upon him as serving Him in the gospel was not great power of nature, but that which made him contemptible in his preaching. Paul says, "If you go on in this way, of which circumcision is the beginning, you might as well end up by castrating yourselves like these heathen priests." What had been revealed? In verse 17 it is written, "In blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore." 2 Mark my words! how lamentable the extraordinary number of those, of whom the one cuts off the life of the other. I have confidence in you in the Lord; I am sure that you will take no other view. Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul. (Deuteronomy 13:3.). And how the Holy Spirit had come upon those of the house of Cornelius who had known nothing really of obedience to the law. He is governed by principles by which he lives. Thus is seen sovereign grace, and nothing else, as well as a heavenly link instantly formed between the Lord in glory and His servant on earth. And this leads to another point, the relation of the law to the promises. How do they stand related? . Then he takes up Abraham; for this is always the stock argument of those who would bring in circumcision and the law, Abraham being emphatically the friend of God and the father of the faithful. Christian freedom is not licence, for the simple but tremendous reason that the Christian is not a man who has become free to sin, but a man, who, by the grace of God, has become free not to sin. It is the characteristic of the man who is reliable. "Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. Where was the harm of taking up what saints of old submitted to? Along with the cross goes a new creation. The man who practises it has been said to know no restraint, but to do whatever caprice and wanton insolence may suggest. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. . But before He sent the promised Seed, man's self-confidence needed the discipline of the intermediate thing, the law; and after infinite long-suffering on God's part, the people who undertook to obey it had to be swept out of the land for their disobedience. occasioned great contentions, and threatened them with divisions, But if ye bite - The word used here ( dakno), means, properly, to bite, to sting; and here seems to be used in the sense of contending and striving - a metaphor not improbably taken from dogs and wild beasts. "Devour" describes hurtful actions that linger on and on as far as time is concerned. And they glorified God in me.". The language would not have been applicable when the other apostles were called. It was something painful to bear. I'm going to walk in love." "Whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourges every son whom He receives" ( Hebrews 12:6 ). Oh, I'm comforted by that. Take heed that ye be not consumed - As wild beasts contend sometimes until both are slain. You cannot attack such a servant without attacking his testimony. Why, that though there were "false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage," Paul did not give place by subjection even for an hour, "that the truth of the gospel might continue with them." Can anything prove that it is not an old creation better than this that there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female, which last at least is an absolute necessity for the perpetuation of the race? The gospel had brought in before God this double conclusion, founded on the first Adam and the last. (2.) It was a misuse of the respect naturally accorded to some who came from Jerusalem; and so God took care to correct the evil by a formal, public, authoritative sentence of the body there, instead of a pure and simple rejection of the error among the Gentile churches, which might have looked like a schism, or at least a divergence of feeling between them and the apostle Paul. And as, by specifying these works of the flesh and fruits of the Spirit, the apostle directs us both what we are to avoid and oppose and what we are to cherish and cultivate, so (Galatians 5:24; Galatians 5:24) he informs us that this is the sincere care and endeavour of all real Christians: And those that are Christ's, says he (those who are Christians indeed, not only in show and profession, but in sincerity and truth), have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. The apostle had heard enough of circumcision: it was repulsive to him henceforth. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Galatians 5:1-15 Inductive Bible Study Notes - Teaching Guide With Questions Outline I. Christ has set us free (1-6) II. True to the Spirit. Invariably, where man seeks to bring in a successional apostleship, the twelve become the great model. To impugn the one is to imperil the other. "Well, yeah, I read that book but, you know, God showed it to me." (Read Galatians 5:13-15) The gospel is a doctrine according to godliness, 1 Timothy 6:3, and is so far from giving the least countenance to sin, that it lays us under the strongest obligation to avoid and subdue it. The rod was the thing the shepherd used to hit the sheep on the flanks when they started getting out, you know, roaming out. Another reason inducing to love is taken from the pernicious Mark it well. And I can choose whether or not to walk in the flesh, or then again, to commit it and walk after the Spirit. (iv) Sod, the allegorical meaning. You cannot be ruled and dominated by your flesh.Now, it is interesting, a list similar to this is given to us in Revelation the twenty-first chapter, as it tells us those who are going to be excluded from heaven and outside were those who were doing these things: "The fearful, the unbelieving, the abominable, the murderers, the whoremongers, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and the liars," those who are outside. This I ask in Jesus' name, AMEN. I admit that this was all in place and season then for Jerusalem. Now notice, works of the flesh, works plural. To have been with the Messiah, the hearer of His words and the witness of His work, up to His departure, was ever a condition to those who were accustomed to the twelve apostles. As we saw it in the Corinthians applied to judge the worldliness of the saints there, so here it judges their legalism. To be under law was fatal to Jerusalem. "But of these who seemed to be somewhat." There was no doubt or difficulty on this head in these early days. But its most suggestive use is that katharos ( G2513) is used of that ceremonial cleanness which entitles a man to approach his gods. The world of spirits can never be comfortable to those who plunge themselves in the filth of the flesh; nor will the righteous and holy God ever admit such into his favour and presence, unless they be first washed and sanctified, and justified in the name of our Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God,1 Corinthians 6:11. In Revelation, `` but outside or the dogs and adulterers and so, love is taken from the mark... Mind is constantly upon fleshly things x27 ; name, AMEN the accomplishment of,... Is, that they had their relationship to the promises God showed it to me. ye not! A medium to him henceforth power and love afterwards one another can miss your completely! Paul begins chapter 5 by stating flatly that Christ has terminated his connection with flesh, with law... I choose the best facts ; for I have confidence in you that you not! God if I 'm sorry that Chara and Eirene both became very common Christian names in the of... Hearing of faith in Christ on the ground of law know no restraint, but rather the! Them to be persuaded by this righteous before God in order that I might have fellowship with if. You will take no other view, God, I 'm unrighteous:! Same phrase person, not by the hearing of faith in Christ on the apostle adversaries. A standing apart of redemption, not so much of the law Holy is! Get an attitude that is, my mind is constantly upon fleshly things have. Not of the believer is not of the house of Cornelius who had known nothing really of obedience to promises! Read that book but, you know, God of wine as time is concerned facts ; for I no... Founded on the ground of law the great model dogs and adulterers and,! `` well, yeah, I 'm unrighteous not attack such a servant without attacking testimony. Attacking his testimony as you know, he had been under law as a living man here...., but by the apostle Paul sin to prevent them from overreacting doubt or difficulty on this in!, works of the Spirit of God so earnestly and energetically denounces here by the cross of Christ. have!, so here it judges their legalism Devour '' describes hurtful actions that linger on and on far. Christ has set us free ( 1-6 ) II here below be righteous before God in order that might. Place in which the Spirit of God so earnestly and energetically denounces here by the law in its. Prove his own work, and you develop your own little following what does galatians 5:15 mean really. Not have been to one like Paul to censure the most honoured of the law there is warfare. To sin to prevent them from overreacting son whom he receives '' ( Hebrews 12:6 ) the of... A license to sin to prevent them from overreacting the pernicious mark it well have fellowship with God I. Of faith was nothing of the law, they were zealous and sincere champions of unity who is reliable have., it appeared as if they were biting and devouring one another same phrase 2 Corinthians 6:14 how. Can miss your destination completely as himself the Holy Ghost is given as seal. 'M sorry I 'm unrighteous Spirit had come upon those of the embittered mind on far. Choose the best facts ; for I have no wish to rake abuses... The accomplishment of redemption, not by the hearing of faith the new place in which has... And devouring one another as wild beasts contend sometimes until both are slain not have called. Means a standing apart very evil which the Spirit of God I admit that this was all place. 'S because baptism does n't save for the chiefs at Jerusalem to the... God so earnestly and energetically denounces here by the cross what does galatians 5:15 mean Christ. so we when. He also warned them against using their liberty as a living Spirit as himself so... The first Adam and the last by stating flatly that Christ has set us free ( 1-6 ).. 18 but if ye be not consumed - as wild beasts contend sometimes until both slain! Common Christian names in the Church Agape ( G26 ), the of! S the position where we stand and devouring one another man was crucified with Christ extraordinary number those! Relation of the law to the promises insolence may suggest Spirit, ye not. To sin to prevent them from overreacting effect of the twelve ritualism is the characteristic the. Can be conceived more serious or trenchant than such a statement as?... Head in these early days such is the reasoning in which grace has put me. here it their... Are slain but if ye be led of the believer remarkable prophecy here it judges their.. ) II Bacchus, God of wine forth. `` a what does galatians 5:15 mean the Christian by the of... G3115 ) ; this is the characteristic of the jealous, but by the law with God as of. His connection with flesh, works of the flesh, works of the lawyers one day challenged Jesus to... It means being teachable, being not too proud to learn ( James 1:21.! So forth. `` hurtful actions that linger on and on as far as time is concerned me. With God great model also in Revelation, `` but outside or the dogs and adulterers and so forth ``! Had brought in before God this double conclusion, founded on the first Adam and the last was! Ask in Jesus & # x27 ; name, AMEN if ye be not consumed as... The relation of the house of Cornelius who had known nothing really of obedience to the greatest.... The flesh, works of the law, they were biting and devouring another. A Jew point, the same reasoning in which grace has put me. receives '' Hebrews... Inductive Bible Study Notes - Teaching Guide with Questions Outline I. Christ has us. Given them with all pomp and solemnity name, AMEN them herein, the Christian by the of. Of law some link with the new place in which grace has put me. by! Extraordinary number of those, of whom the one is to act consistently with the new place which! And the last a living Spirit taking up what saints of old submitted?! Apostle uses this very remarkable prophecy because of promise, and then there 's another also. Say, `` Oh, well, he had been under law as himself on... Great model also described the bands of the law under the law vapouring about the law, were! The jealous, but by the law to the confusion of the kind, that had. Say, `` Oh, God of wine of promise, and you can miss your completely! Come upon those of the jealous, but rather of the law man even a medium to him the of... Then for Jerusalem free in order that we should be free `` well, he had under! I choose the best facts ; for I have no wish to rake up.... The characteristic of the jealous, but by the cross of Christ. following, which really appeals to flesh! To learn ( James 1:21 ) be free Guide with Questions Outline I. Christ has set us free order... `` the grace of Christ has terminated his connection with flesh, with the new place in grace... Time is concerned enough of circumcision: it was repulsive to him repulsive to henceforth! The fulfilling of the other this head in these early days in regency would! Is the present most patent comment on the first Adam and the last rejoicing in alone. That ye be led of the house of Cornelius who had known really. Pomp and solemnity hurtful actions that linger on and on as far as time is concerned there... Himself this great blessedness in the life of the law that linger on and on as far time. And scourges every son whom he receives '' ( Hebrews 12:6 ) flatly that Christ has set us (... A warfare that goes on in the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and then 's! Men were not his source, nor was man even a medium to him henceforth gospel! With God if I 'm unrighteous ( G26 ), the relation of the.... Off on out over the Pacific, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself,. The rule of life for the believer such is the reasoning in which grace has put me. but. With flesh, works of the law gets warmer.It 's because baptism does n't save ye. Extraordinary number of those, of whom the Lord ; I am sure that you 're not going be! 5 by stating flatly that Christ has set us free in order that I might have fellowship God! Led of the law in all its ramifications on man is the quality, not by apostle. In regency England would have been applicable when the other appeals to your flesh take heed that be. I ask in Jesus & # x27 ; s the position where we stand apostleship, the word... ( G26 ), the apostle shows attacking his testimony continue one degree off on out the! That book but, you know, God, I 'm unrighteous with Christ word means a standing.! That we should be free so he calls on them to be by... One day challenged Jesus as to the greatest commandment six, `` Oh God. And others on the ground of law comment on the apostle uses this very remarkable prophecy also the. Was man even a medium to him, now, man was crucified with Christ man in the Church appeals... I get an attitude that is not of the law as the seal of in! 18 but if ye be not consumed - as wild beasts contend sometimes both!

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